Novelist Michael Lister lives in northwest Florida.

Before becoming a full-time writer in 2000, Michael was the youngest chaplain within the Florida Department of Corrections. As a contract, staff, and senior chaplain, Michael served a diverse group of people representing many races, nations, and religions, including Native American, Judaism, Islam, and Christianity. He also taught classes in life skills and literature, as well as facilitated support groups for spiritual growth and addiction recovery.

His seven years of prison chaplaincy bring authenticity and realism to his mystery series featuring ex-cop turned prison chaplain, John Jordan. The first of which, Power in the Blood, was published by Pineapple Press. The next, Blood of the Lamb, was published by Bleak House Books in September of 2004. The third book of the series, The Body and the Blood, will be out soon.

Writing in a variety of formats, Michael has served as senior staff screenwriter for Triple Horse Entertainment, one of the south’s largest independent production companies, and as lead writer and editor of The Gulf County Breeze, a Florida newspaper established in 1925. His popular column River Readings, chronicling his search for a life of depth and meaning, is published in print and online at his website, www.MichaelLister.com.

When he’s not writing, Michael serves as an adjunct professor at Gulf Coast Community College and teaches classes, conducts workshops, and speaks at conferences on writing, inspiration, and the relationship between art, life, and religion.

His lectures on inspiration have led to a collection of meditations on art and the creative process titled: The Breath of Life: Meditations on Inspiration and Creativity.

Michael’s latest project is a very personal literary novel titled The Novelist.

Interview Transcripts

Roundtable Review Interview

BLOOD OF THE LAMBS is a fascinating mystery revolving around a Florida prison chaplain. Having just been introduced to John Jordan and his creator, Michael Lister, I was eager to learn more! It isn't every day that I have found other Jann Arden fans! If you haven't heard her music, I think all of her albums are must buys, particularly Living Under June, which contains on of my all-time favorite duets, Jackson Browne joins Jann on Unloved!

Your series revolves around a Florida prison chaplain, John Jordan. For those who may not be familiar with your books, can you share a little about the series?

The John Jordan mystery series introduces a clerical sleuth into the world of the hard-boiled detective novel through the venue of prison chaplaincy. The books center around a flawed man of faith, seeking serenity, while ministering mercy and thirsting for justice. In addition to brining together the clerical and the hard-boiled detective traditions, the John Jordan series also combines elements of classical and modern mysteries

Ironically, John is not a firm believer in organized religion. Why take this route?

Because it creates conflict—both internal and external—and conflict is drama. Because it is my own personal experience—a paradox I am intimately acquainted with. Because there are so many people in the world with genuine spiritual hunger who have been unable to find sustenance for their souls within the confines of organized religion. Because ultimately John Jordan is an outsider and doesn’t comfortably fit in anywhere.

John is also a former police officer. How do you research that aspect of his life?

I read a lot. I have friends in law enforcement. I take classes and do ride-alongs. But since I’m not writing police procedurals, and because my detective deals more with human nature than the intricacies of forensics, it’s not a major issue.

How much of your books represent your own personal experiences as a prison chaplain?

Much. I was a full-time prison chaplain with the Florida Department of Corrections for seven years, and since becoming a full-time writer. I have continued to volunteer inside. My books are works of fiction, but the raw materials I use when creating them are the experiences I’ve had. I’ve worked with hundreds of correctional officers and thousands of inmates—and each and every one with a different story. My experiences have given me a milieu with a nearly inexhaustible number of mysteries—and suspects.

What made you give up your career to become a writer?

In some ways I haven’t. I’ve always been involved with creativity and spirituality, art and religion. At various times in my life I spend more time on one than the other, but they are both always present, and very interwoven. I still minister in prison. I still teach religion classes at a nearby college, and in a way, my writing combines the two. However, writing is my heart. It’s takes priority. Writing in general and the novel in particular is the center of my creative universe.

Mention of Jann Arden caught my eye. Not many are familiar with her incredible music. I assume you are a fan?

I’m an enormous Jann fan. She’s in my top five all time favs. I love all her work, but I wish I could ingest her album ‘Living Under June’ so it could be part of every cell of my body. Just before my first novel come out, I wrote her and told her how much her music meant to me (something I’ve only done once in my life) and she wrote me back and said my letter made her cry.

What is up next for John?

I’m very excited about John’s next case. The title is The Body and the Blood. Here is a brief synopsis: It’s known as the Protective Management Unit. It’s a closed society within a closed society, housing Florida state inmates who wouldn’t survive in open population at Potter Correctional Institution. In it, John Jordan witnesses the most baffling crime of his career—a seemingly impossible murder he would swear could not have happened had he not seen it with his own eyes.

John has come to the PM unit because of a note he received announcing a murder would take place during the Catholic Mass. As he observes the priest offering up the body and the blood, an inmate enters the unit, walks over to his cell, and is locked inside alone. A little while later, John notices a pool of blood spreading out from beneath the cell door. The inmate is dead, his body and his blood separated from one another.

The inmate, a talented artist, and quite possibly innocent man, was sensitive and kind, just a few short days from parole. Who would want to kill him and why? Before John can answer these questions, he’s got to figure out how he was killed.

When you are not busily writing, what hobbies do you enjoy?

Books—reading and collecting. Basketball. Film—my favorite is noir. Photography and filmmaking.

The Emerald Coast Arts Magazine on WKGC

Emily Lamberia: This is the Emerald Coast Arts Magazine on WKGC. I’m Emily Lamberia. A murder has just occurred in Florida’s toughest prison. Ex-cop turned prison chaplain, John Jordan, is called to investigate. He uncovers crooked prison officials, sadistic inmates, and abused employees. This is the story of Power in the Blood, a mystery by author, Michael Lister. We’ll meet with Lister, plus take your phone calls straight ahead on this addition of the Emerald Coast Arts Magazine.

EL: And we would like you to meet author and chaplain, Michael Lister, welcome to the show.

Michael Lister: Thank You.

EL: Sounds like a story ripped from the headlines.

ML: Yes. The kind of story I wanted to tell was one that would be very true to life.

EL: So tell me a little bit about this story?

ML: To give you a little history and to really understand the kind of story I’m telling, I have to take you back to G.K. Chesterton, who is the father of the clerical detective. Back in 1911 he wrote the Father Brown detective stories. And what he decided to do was take a man who everybody would think would be the most innocent and naive person in town, this little celibate cleric and put him in situations where he was given the opportunity to solve a mystery. And as he would solve it, and he had such insight into human nature, even including human evil, everybody was just perplexed and they would say how can this guy understand this. His response was that you can’t sit all day and hear people’s confessions of their deepest, darkest secrets and not understand human nature. So I took that just a little further and put a minister, someone who was doing his best to be a good man, certainly not perfect, and put him in the most difficult situation I could imagine. One that I knew intimately, because it’s what I do, and I put him as a prison chaplain, but he’s also an ex-cop and loves mysteries and loves to get involved in mysteries. In the first story, he really resists because of the violence that takes place and because of how out of balance his life gets when he is involved in a murder investigation, but he can’t resist the pull to investigate. So he is very much two distinctly different people struggling with each other. A minister on one hand, and on the other hand an investigator.

EL: Now you also portray Jordan as a romantic individual. You describe his desire to have a relationship with the female FedEx driver and most people don’t think of a chaplain or minister as having those kind of feelings. Why was it important for you to portray Jordan this way?

ML: As I said earlier, reality was what I was going for. I want something to be true to life and to create characters that were real. I guess part of it was my on rebellion against the residual affect of Puritanism, too. Ministers are men or women with the same desires and needs as everyone else. They certainly are submitting them to a morality and to what they feel to be a call from God to do certain things, but they still are human beings. And I wanted to give him just as much struggle with his humanity has he seeks divinity as anyone else.

EL: Of course the title of this novel that we’re talking about is Power in the Blood. This is going to be a first in the series of John Jordan mysteries?

ML: Right. He is definitely coming back. I’ve written four in this series so far. Each of them have the word blood in the title. The next one is Blood of the Lamb.

EL: And tell me about, Power in the Blood, as it relates to the Bible.

ML: Of course the theme of blood runs all throughout the Bible, from the very beginning. In fact, when I said that the clerical detective started with G.K. Chesterton, you could say that religion and murder go back a long, long way. In fact, the first recorded murder is in the context of a religious book, the Bible. And from the very beginning we have the shedding of blood in the garden of Eden. And all throughout blood is a theme because blood is the most central fundamental element in our lives. To have life we have to have blood and very often the loss of life is equal to loss of blood. In the Hebrew Bible, what many people call the Old Testament, the concept of washing in the blood came from the fact that a sheep who had lost its mother and needed to be adopted, the shepherd would take it to another adult female sheep and make just a small nick in her neck and drain some of her blood. Then the shepherd would wash that baby sheep in that blood so that the female adult would recognize this small sheep as her own and become its mother. That sort of adoption is what has carried on all throughout the scriptures culminating in the New Testament in Jesus and the life that he lead, for those of us who are Christians who believe him to be the incarnate God—God come in the flesh. And as a part of coming in the flesh, he shed his blood, so that we might be washed in it, so that we might also receive that same type of adoption, the beautiful picture the shepherd presents for us.

EL: John Jordan in Power in the Blood seems to be somewhat of an orphan if you will in the world with his dysfunctional family and now he’s living alone in this trailer in the middle of northwest Florida working in this prison and he just seems like a lonely guy and kind of like an orphan.

ML: It’s very insightful of you to see that. He doesn’t fit. That’s another thing I certainly related to in bringing this individual to life who was not like his family, surroundings, prison he worked in. I mean everything was sort of a foreign environment to him. Or I guess maybe he is the foreigner, the stranger. He really is a pilgrim sort of passing through, and yet at the same time he really has a heart for where he is, the people and community, it’s sort of a love hate relationship, and a lot of people experience that when they come from a small town. You love it and there is so many things to love about it and yet at the same time the dynamic of being in such a small environment, the limitations, gives you sort of an uncomfortable feeling as well.

EL: We are talking to author Michael Lister and his novel is called Power in the Blood, it’s a John Jordan mystery. John Jordan is of course the prison chaplain who is a detective as well and a lot of similarities between the fictional chaplain and the real life chaplain who is here with us. Let’s talk a little bit about your background. You said your from Wewahitchka, and I’ll let you take it from there.

ML: I was born in Tallahassee, but raised in Wewahitchka most of my life, then I attended a Bible college in Atlanta. Then I went to Ole Roberts University for seminary. Then I moved to Panama City and pastored here for a while. Then I did what I said I would never do: I moved back to my home town. So I certainly have that in common with John Jordan. In addition to that, I have been a prison chaplain since 1993 and for this series have a very inside track, as far as research goes, and was exposed to a world that few people are, unless your incarcerated. Even the books I’ve read or heard about by inmates are so much different than the kind I’m telling. They have a particular bies because of their experience. They experience inside prison one way where as I get hopefully a little more objective view of what takes place. Both with the officers, staff, and the inmates. So I have been a prison chaplain full time for about 4 years and have found it to be the most challenging ministry that I have ever experienced.

EL: Now you said that you also ministered in Panama City for a while and you’ve been with the department of corrections for several years. Why is it important for you to minister to these inmates?

ML: One of the things that speaks to me the most about the gospels, and I really firmly believe it’s one of the things that we’ve really lost as Americans because we’ve so Americanized the gospel. We’ve made it a middle class kind of respected institution when in fact the gospel is a very counterculture movement. It was good news for the poor and the marginalized people, whether politically or socially, and so to be true to Jesus we have to do is be motivated by compassion, not necessarily for those who are like us socially, economically, or racially, but have compassion to those who need it the most. Certainly prisoners need it the most, and I felt like that’s the place for us to go.

EL: Now you work at the Calhoun Correctional Institute in Blountstown, as a chaplain there, take me behind the walls of Calhoun Correctional. What is life like?

ML: Well, for inmates its is extremely structured. Every moment of every day they have a certain place to be. All of them are assigned jobs and once their awaken very early in the morning and fed breakfast then they go to their jobs. We have vocational programs where they actually pick up skills and all kind of vocations like wood working, refrigeration repair, and air conditioning repair, things like that. Of course most every job done in prison like washing the several thousand uniforms is done by inmates, cooking the several thousand meals is done by the inmates, keeping the buildings is also done by the inmates. So each inmates is assigned a job then we as the chaplains and the education staff try to offer programs, so that if an inmate has the desire to change and look at themselves, then we provide the format for that. It’s certainly their choice whether they attend chapel or they go to an education class, or twelve steps group or AA group, its totally their choice. Unless in case of certain substance abuse, addictions, and crimes that are caused by those, the court mandates that they attend some sort of class. Of course all the religious programs are up to them whether they want to attend or not. So we provide a lot of programs and try to get them involved, and try to create as high a quality of life for them in that setting as we possibly can.

EL: Now in your book there is a character, I believe his name is Anthony Thomas, an inmate, and he basically was a good guy but he got into a little bit of trouble doing something relatively minor, and he ends up in prison and he goes from this good guy into drug addicted violent guy and so on and so forth. Do you see that happening a lot in real life prison, where someone relatively good comes in and then they turn this monster loose on the streets?

ML: No. Really for someone like him, and even that character, for those kind of things to come out, they had to be someone in him to begin with. Now maybe was exposed to similar type people and maybe never had been before, but I certainly don’t think we’re creating monsters by any means and I think most the people leaving prison are much better than when they go in. There are those however that are easily influenced and the influence in prison by ? is negative. You know you have a highly concentrated negative hostile environment and for those who are easily lead astray, and there still responsible just like Anthony Thomas or any other character there responsible and it has to be in their hearts to do those things to begin with, but if there easily lead into those kinds things then certainly there’s a place for that there. They can find any kind of help there such as spiritual help in the chapel but at the same time they can find an alternate path on the compound.

EL: My guest is Michael Lister and phone lines are open. We’ve talked about the character John Jordan. Let’s talk for a moment about the sadistic correctional officer, Skipper. Now this guy abuses his power, inmates, and other staff and is just an all around bad kind of guy.

ML: Yes, he’s a villain in a novel. By in large correctional officers do an extremely difficult job, extremely gracefully. They put up with things that most people cannot possibly imagine. However, my first responsibility in a novel is to create a story, an interesting story and I certainly have to have villains, so he is one. And like any position of power and especially in correctional setting where you have pretty much powerless people that other people are in charge of, there’s the possibility of abusive power and certainly that takes place. Especially when you think about certain people given powers the first authority or power they have ever experienced and to be in charge of a population who has little recourse there is the possibility for corruption and for the abusive power it does go on, but certainly this is a fictional character.

EL: Maybe you can tell us little bit more about officer Skipper as far as how would you describe him to someone.

ML: He is an abuser of power and I think the greatest evil that we really experience as humans comes from the abuse of power. Political power, family power, church power any time you have the power and authority then you have the possibility for the abuse of it. He’s one that prays upon that and takes full advantage of the power and authority he’s been given. So he’s a person trying to pretty much take whatever he wants because he’s in power to do so or he feels like he is, because he really views these inmates not as people and not as human beings and whether it’s Hitler or anyone else the moment someone starts viewing people like that, regardless of what they’ve done, the moment we forget that they’re human beings, the moment we forget to have compassion is the moment I think we become like those that we’re saying are no longer human. One thing that I think ? said was that you can tell a nation by the way it treats its criminals and I really feel like in America we can say that a lot is said by the way we treat our criminals I think by in large we treat them very well. In fact the reason I’m in there is so that they don’t loose their religious freedoms that’s a great thing about our country. They get to practice whatever faith they want to practice.

EL: And with that lets go to the phone lines.

Caller: I was just wondering since Minister Lister is in with the prisoners, I don’t know how often you are in their.

ML: Yes ma’am. It’s a 40 hour 5 days a week job.

Caller: It seems now that I’m aware of it, there are many very young men going into prison, maybe it’s always been but it seems now more than ever or the older ones possibly going in, would you think it would be easier to rehabilitate a young man or a man that’s a little more mature or does it depend on how long they have to serve would that have a bearing on their changing.

ML: Well that’s a great question. Unfortunately there’s so many variables. When a person actually makes a change in their life, just like we do out here on the street, what motivates us to change? Think about the advertisement we just heard about losing weight for the new year, what motivates us to make changes in our life, whether its scheduling or spiritual changes or whatever? The youth verses the old it really is amazing that sometimes it takes 4 or 5 trips to prison for some of these men and late in life they really do make changes. Where as others, some of the younger guys, really just got caught up in some things and so their first trip to prison is like a wake up call and they respond to it. And it’s all about the response the men have to what happens, this devastating thing like going to prison, and if they respond in the right way and really desire to make changes then that’s possible but for those who are really just waiting to get out and trying to do the same things again then of course their going to be our ? offenders. But she also mentioned the length of time they stay. One of the things that’s going on right now, especially in our state, is we’re having inmates serving 85% of their sentence now which is higher than it’s ever been so we’re having offenders staying in much longer than they ever have which is certainly creating new challenges for us. When a person knows they’re going to be in there possibly their whole life it changes the way they conduct themselves and the kind of things their looking for while they’re inside.

EL: Have any inmates that you know actually had the opportunity to read Power in the Blood?

ML: A few have, and I’m not exactly sure how, but I have received a few letters through the publisher and favorable ones. Really was somewhat surprised, but I think those who have read it who are inside see that its’ a honest betrayal of prison and although its entertainment and that it has that value and it’s first priority is to tell a good story. Realizing that they also appreciate the reality and authenticity because so much of what is written about prison is written by people who have never been in there and I guess maybe they saw a movie one time and so they sort of wrote based on that and that’s not reality.

EL: In the end, the evil characters reap what they sow, if you will. Do you believe that’s true in life or just wishful thinking?

ML: I really do believe it’s true. I believe it’s a law—like the law of gravity. Whatever you sow, you’re going to reap. Nature teaches us that, and I think our lives do. The kind of seeds we sow—like the kind of seeds John sows as far as compassion and integrity, he reaps a certain kind of benefit. Not money or worldly things. In fact, to most people he’s a failure, but on another level, he’s reaping something far more important than those kinds of things. He’s reaping peace. And for those who are sowing the others kinds of things, they’re reaping a harvest, too. And a lot of people come to prison and they’ve sown all kinds of seeds in their lives, and they’ve had a religious conversion of some sort, and so they immediately begin to pray that all those seeds will die in the ground and not bring forth a harvest, but that doesn’t happen. Even when we’re forgiven, even when we’re making changes in our lives, everything we’ve done prior to that has planted seeds and we’re going to reap those regardless of what other kinds of seeds we may being to plant.

EL: We’ve been talking to author Michael Lister. He is the author of Power in the Blood. So what’s next for Michael Lister?

ML: I have several novels in various stages, but the next John Jordan novel is Blood of the Lamb and it will be out soon.

EL: Michael, thanks so much for coming by and talking to us about this book, and we look forward to all the others coming out, as well.

Crosstalk on WTLN, Orlando

John Adams: Hello everyone, it’s time for another edition of Crosstalk. I’m John Adams your host. On the show today we’re going to be talking to Michael Lister, who is a chaplain and the author of a new book about a chaplain called Power in the Blood.

JA: On the phone with me right now is Michael Lister. And Michael is a real life prison chaplain who wrote the book Power in the Blood. Michael is a native of Gulf County. He’s published two previous books of inspiration, but Power in the Blood is his first Stab—no pun intended there—at a mystery thriller. He is the chaplain at Calhoun Correctional Institution, which is in Blountstown, Florida. Welcome to the program today, Michael.

ML: Thank you very much.

JA: Well, first of all, why did you write the book?

ML: Well, it’s a fictional book based in reality, being a prison chaplain gave me a perfect opportunity to deal with some very important issues and I felt like the fictional format gives the most leeway to really tell a good story and really speak to those issues. I’d been wanting to write a mystery for quite a while, and when I began as a prison chaplain, it all came together.

JA: Obviously, as a Christian, we know what Power in the Blood refers to.

ML: Well, this is part of a series and all the titles will have blood in them. However, for Power in the Blood, blood is a real motif in the book. The chaplain is exposed to blood from an innate who’s HIV positive. Of course, in the prison setting, it’s two to one—as far as the ratio of people infected with HIV compared to the population outside of prison in the state of Florida. Several inmates come into prison with it, and it spreads much quicker in this environment than on the outside. John Jordan, my protagonist, is dealing with this the whole novel, and he thinks about it a lot as he’s serving communion and talking about the power in the blood.

JA: Now, Michael you mentioned that this book was written to point out some of the problems within the department of corrections. What are some of those problems?

ML: One of the most interesting things about prison ministry—first of all let me say I love prison ministry. It’s the greatest opportunity to make the biggest difference and I love it. However, like anything else, you can only minister and be as effective as individuals will allow you to. We’re ministering to a population that is so devastated and so wounded in so many ways that there’s really a need for a holistic approach—meeting their spiritual needs, but also addressing addictions, things relating to interpersonal relationships. Many of them come from broken homes and from families that are very dysfunctional, and we try to address all of those things. And in the book those things come out as well.

JA: Well, it says in one of the writeups it’s an unflinching and disturbing look at contemporary prison life. Is there anything else you can tell us about John Jordan? He gave up being a cop and joined the chaplaincy.

ML: All through school and college he felt a call, but he is the child of an alcoholic—his mom’s an alcoholic. His dad’s a sheriff and part of his joining law enforcement, though he did it to put himself through school, was a way of running from that call. And he had some very bad experiences both as a cop and an alcoholic in Atlanta, so he leaves all that to come back home to northwest Florida. He takes this job as a chaplain with the Florida Department of Corrections, but of course in the prison environment, he’s confronted with some of the very things he was trying to get away from.

JA: Well, Michael you have been a chaplain with the Florida Department of Corrections for a long time now, what is the most common problem or common need you personally face each day with inmates?

ML: It’s such a complex issue, and a lot of times people ask what is the solution to our crime problem or problem with prisons, and I think one of the greatest problems we have is being over-determinate or making it too simple. It’s not just one problem. There is no one answer. What I try to do is minister to the whole person, not just meeting their spiritual needs, but showing how faith, if it’s integrated, will address all the other areas of their lives as well. Far too often, people coming out of this devastated, dysfunctional situations, readily accept conversion, I mean the idea of forgiveness is very appealing to them, but then when you talk about really growing in faith and issues of recovery and becoming an integris person living out their faith in every aspect of their lives, a lot of times we see a real duality there. While they profess one thing, they live something else entirely. And I think it has everything to do with integration, you know having integrity, addressing all their needs, from their mentality and thought processes to the way they relate with other people and learn how to live in a different way altogether.

JA: Well, the name of the book is Power in the Blood by Michael Lister. It’s a story about a prison chaplain in Florida, and Library Journal calls it a "promising first novel." And we wish you the very best with it, Michael. Thanks again for being with us today.

ML: Thank you very much. I enjoyed it.

Let Freedom Ring on The Coast WFCT 105.5

Jamie Lester: Friends welcome to Let Freedom Ring. Today I’m joined by author Michael Lister, a man I say wears a coat of many colors in our community. He’s like Joseph, he’s a many who wears many, many colors. He’s written several books, got a lot of things happening. You can call him an artist, you can call him a writer, you can call him a producer, you can call him a screenwriter, you can call him a professor, you can call him a publisher, you can call him a minister, I mean he has done a lot of things. But most importantly I can call him my friend. I could not ask for a better friend than Michael Lister. Remember, his last name has an "i" and mine has an "e," and the ones with the "i" have all the money. Welcome, Michael.

ML: Thanks for having me. I’m certainly glad to be here. I might take issue with you on the Lister-Lester thing, the "i" and the "e." That may have once been true, but not any more, and you can I can compare out tax returns or our bank accounts if you’d like, but I don’t think you want to do that.

JL: No. My checkbook would bounce around this room.

ML: And I didn’t even mention savings because I don’t have one, but I’m sure you do. But thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

JL: Oh yeah. Your parents, Mike and Judi did a wonderful job raising you and your sister, Aimee. What’s there opinion and assessment on some of your accomplishments.

ML: My parents have been the most amazing parents anyone could have. They are extremely supportive. And always have been—whether they understood or agreed with what I was trying to do or whether it succeeds or fails, and there’s a lot that’s in that last category.

JL: And your wife, Pam. How did you meet her?

ML: Interestingly enough, when I left Florida after high school and moved to Atlanta for college, she was the very first person I met. And I had marriage on my mind at the time. And I asked myself, "could I marry her?" And I thought "no." But we became friends and within six months were dating and two years were married.

JL: And you’ve produced two great kids. Now, the girl, Meleah, she looks just like you. I mean, she is you made over.

ML: Well, I think you’re being far too kind to me when you say that, but thank you. I’m so blessed, and I’m constantly amazed at how much they teach me. I have as much respect for them, the people they are, as anyone on this planet.

JL: What do they think about their daddy being a novelist?

ML: Writing is one of those things you do alone. Unlike you—we have almost opposite lives—because every single day I’m alone writing, just me and the computer. You’re out and about, constantly surrounded by people. So, writing is not something your kids or anyone else can look at and say, "Wow, look at what my dad’s doing." They don’t get to see you do anything but typing or thinking, so they don’t think you do much, but anytime I speak at a conference or bookstore or anytime I’ve been on TV or radio, then that’s when they see and get excited. The very first signing I ever did, Meleah was seven, and she had gone to a birthday party and they gave her a little popper that you pull the string and it pops and confetti come out. Everything other kid at the party did theirs, but Meleah saved hers and did it after I read at my first signing.

JL: Our special guest today is Michael Lister, and I’m holding a book in my hand titled Power in the Blood. Michael, what was it like to work in a prison?

ML: Extraordinary. Unlike anything else there is. I was finishing up my graduate degree in theology and I happened to attend a ministerial association meeting in our community—the only one I’ve ever been to—and they asked me and two others to go out to the new prison and see how we in the community could help. I was just beginning to write fiction. I had done a lot of nonfiction writing, but just starting to write fiction. And I was wondering what I was going to do next. I knew I was going to write, but I didn’t know what else. And I got this opportunity to become a prison chaplain. It was something I had never even thought about, never had considered. But when the three of us walked into the chaplain’s office, he looked at me and said, "You need to be doing this." And I thought, "I do? Are you sure?" Well, later in the week I got to thinking about it and something deep inside said, "Yeah, I do." A week or two later, they called me and offered me a contract chaplain position and I decided to do it. Then about a year later, I was hired as a full-time chaplain, then about three years after that I was promoted to senior chaplain. And it was a life-changing experience. Not only did it give me enough material for volumes of books—you know one of the things you should do in a book is take people some place they can’t go, and a lot of people are interested in what goes on in prison, but don’t want to go their themselves to find out (they’re not that interested), but it just taught me so much about people, human nature, a para-military organization, and about religions. I had studded religions, but this was different. It wasn’t in a book or classroom, but I got to experience their religions with them, got to observe and work with their volunteers—Rabbis, Imams, Native American Medicine Men, Catholic Priests, which later, when I began to teach religion as an adjunct professor at Gulf Coast Community College, it really helped. I hadn’t just studied all the religions, but I had experienced them.

JL: What was the most challenging thing about prison ministry?

ML: There’s so many things, but probably the number one thing is the environment itself. It’s so negative and hostile. There’s this collective negative energy from all of these negative people—and I’m not saying every inmate is negative, but a many are and so many being together so closely is a very powerful thing. So the thing is, how can you go in there every single day and be positive and have a positive impact and not let it affect you negatively. And of course most people can’t—or maybe no one can, but I really tried to process the negativity, get it out, so I could share light and love and be a positive influence, but it wasn’t easy. I tried to see them as people who God loves just as much as anyone else and remember why I was there.

JL: We’re back with Michael Lister, author of Power in the Blood. One of the things I wanted to ask you, Michael, was, are you still a prison chaplain?

ML: I became a full-time writer in 2000 after seven years of chaplaincy, but I still work as a volunteer, so I’m still inside a good bit, still soak up the environment, and try to help out, stay a part of what’s going on.

JL: When and why did you start writing?

ML: I really felt like I was meant to be a writer long before I ever started writing. It was one of those things I knew I would do, one of those things certain significant people in my life told me I would do. In college I fell in love with fiction. Prior to that I had just read nonfiction, but when I learned of the power of story I knew I had toexplore it. And for a few years during and right after college I attempted different things—a short story or two, started a novel here and there, but it wasn’t until the summer of ’94 that something clicked I became a writer—by which I mean I started writing pretty much every day and have ever since. And now I’m just consumed with it. I love it. And if there’s ever a day when I’m unable to do it, I feel like something is missing and if it goes on for more than day I get real frustrated. It’s an obsession.

JL: I can tell it is. Well, Michael thank you for being with us today.

ML: Thank you. I really enjoyed being here.

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